This info is based off the following material:
-Tales of Phantasia (ToP)
-Tales of Phantasia: Katararezaru Rekishi (what I've read of it -_-) (KataReki)
-Tales of Phantasia: Narikiri Dungeon (ND11)
-Tales of the World: Summoner's Lineage (SSamoRine)
-Tales of Symphonia (ToS)
You should expect MAJOR SPOILERS for all of those, possibly excluding Summoner's Lineage.
I only put stuff from the novels (a) if it was important, and (b) I know about it....
If a Tales game isn't listed above, it has nothing to do with the plot of these games. ToD, etc, are completely unrelated.
[Timeline] [Other Info] [Maps] [Plot Hole List] [Alledged Plot Holes] [Bonus Similarities] [Credits] [Cyllya's Crack Theories]
Timeline
Note #1: "a" and "b" mean alternate versions of history created thanks to use of timetravel. x_X The "a" is the original and "b" is the result of time travel.
Note #2: I have a suspicion that the name Derris-Kharlan refers to multiple things. So I specifed with a "(tos)" or "(top)" after it every time I refered to it, just in case.
Note #3: The planet on which 98% of the plot takes place will be refered to as Aselia for convinience.
Note #4: Not to scale.
-- A long, long, long time ago: Elvves come to Aselia from Derris-Kharlan (tos). Planted a Kharlan Tree.
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-(a unspecified but presumeably very, vvery, very large number of years)
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-- 5000yrs prior to ToS end: The suupposed beginning of the Great Kharlan War, between the countries called Sylvarant and Tethe'alla.
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-- 4000 prior to ToS end: End of thhe Great Kharlan War. Eternal Sword first created? The Kharlan Tree is reduced to the Great Seed, and Aselia is split apart because there's not enough mana to support both halves. Within the next 100 years, as Derris-Kharlan's orbit brings it close to Aselia, humans betray Mithos's group in an attempt to gain control of the mana. Martel (half-elf) sacrifices herself in defense of the Great Seed and "dies," being preserved in the Seed with her Cruxis Crystal.
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- (approx 4000 years)
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-- Unknown date: The moons (one oveer each world) are renamed after the opposite world. Tethe'alla's former name was Selene; Sylvarant's former name is unknown.
-- ToS end (most likely more thaan 2543 years prior to AC 0): Tales of Symphonia. Eternal Sword becomes part of Flamberge and Vorpal Sword. Aselia put back together. Kharlan Tree is renamed Yggdrasill, and Martel (the spirit) is created to watch over it.
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- (a large but unspecified number of yeears)
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-- 2543 by the solar calandar (date by AC unknown): Aska captured by Thor for study.
-- Unknown date: Presumeably about the time Macaron was "born."
-- Unknown date, AC 0? (thousandds of years before AC 4304): Ragnarok War. The three major civilizations bite the dust, technology is thrown back to the middle ages. Odin and Fenrir made use of the Flamberge and Vorpal Sword respectively, and those swords were left behind to be guarded by a creature (?) in the countries' ruins. Origin is imprisoned in Heimdall (the tablet, not the village)? This is when the dwarves disappeared. The meteorite supposedly hits the planet, but most likely did not directly strike Thor as history says. (There was apparently magitechnology in this era, but there must not have been widespread use of it as weaponry during the war, since there's no info on a mana shortage in this time period.)
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- (thousands of years)
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-- Unknown date: War between Palacee Sedam and Palace Gudra on Derris-Kharlan (ToP) damages its Kharlan Tree. Dhaos goes to Aselia via time travel to get a Great Seed from their Kharlan Tree (now named Yggdrasill). Norn, the Martel-like spirit(?) who guards DK's Kharlan Tree, kills(?) Meldia and Dios because they are largely responsible for the destruction of the Kharlan Tree. (There is absolutely no indication of when this takes place compared to other events, except that it's probably after ToS.)
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-- AC 4201: Dhaos arrives on Aseliaa. Meets Winona, who helps him out to find the Great Seed
-- AC 4201/4202: Yggdrasill Tree iis greatly harmed by Midgard's use of magitechnology. The Valhalla War begins because Dhaos tries to stop them.
-- AC 4202b: Edward dies in a suiciide attack to destroy Jestorna. Cless, Mint, Klarth, and Arche defeat Dhaos, but he space-time travels to 4354. This is the alternate end of the Valhalla War. Yggdrasill is healed by Mint.
- AC 4203: Mel and Dio meet Klarthh, do the first part of the Trial of Spirits.
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-- AC 4207a: Edward, Alan, Carol, aand Winona defeat Dhaos, but he time travels to the mauseleum of 4294. This is the original end of the Valhalla War.
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-- AC 4294: Dhaos arrives in the maauseleum, having teleported from 4207a. Thanks to Edward telling him to prepare, Torinix and his friends (Meryl, Miguel, Maria) are prepared for him and seal him here.
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-- AC 4304a: Dhaos escapes. Torinixx sends Cless and Mint to 4202b, but he and Chester are killed.
-- AC 4304b: Dhaos escapes. Torinixx sends Cless and Mint to 4202b, but they come back with Klarth and Arche in time to save Torinix and Chester. Dhaos dies in this timeline.
-- AC 4306: Mel and Dio meet Cless,, Mint, and Chester and do the second part of the Trial of Spirits.
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-- AC 4354: Dhaos arrives here, eitther from 4202b. Cless, Mint, Chester, Arche, Klarth, and Suzu get Origin to reassemble the Eternal Sword (Flamberge + Vorpal Sword), bind Dhaos to this time, and kill him.
Martel creates a Great Seed out of his body (in one version of ToP, she also sacrifices herself) and sends it to Derris-Kharlan (top)
Mel and Dio meet Suzu, do the third part of the Trial of Spirits.
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-- AC 4395: Meltia and Dios are rebborn on Aselia as Mel and Dio.
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-- AC 4408: Mel and Dio meet Arche.. Norn sends them traveling through time to prove to her that they are not inherantly evil with the Trial of Spirits. When they're done with that, they do some other stuff, kill their alternate selves, and get reborn again... or something.
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-- AC 4765: Fulein, decendant of Kllarth, saves humanity from a magitechnology android who kinda went insane.
Other Info
A frequent question that comes up is "How much time is between ToS and ToP?" Well, we don't know, but here are some things to keep in mind:
"Thousands of years" before 4354 AC, the super-civilizations Odin, Thor, and Fenrir were destroyed in Ragnarok. These countries don't exist in ToS, and they presumeably took quite a bit of time to grow to such power and technology.
ToP starts at the year 4304 by the Aselia Calendar. Sylvarant and Tethe'alla were split for 4000 years, so unless the beginning of ToP is a mere 304 years after the end of ToS (which we know it's not; see above), the Aselia Calendar could only have been started during the split or after ToS's ending. It'd be really weird for both Tethe'alla and Sylvarant to come up with a new calendar system simultaneously while they're split apart.
Thus we can assume that the calendar was not started until after ToS, right? So ToS's ending is AC 0 (or AC 1) or earlier.
Thor's super-computer, Oz, says Thor's scientists captured Aska in the year 2543 by the solar calendar (this event is before Ragnarok). When is the solar calendar? Who knows. A theory I personally find likely is that Ragnarok is AC 0 (or AC 1) and SC was used before that. If that's true, the end of ToS and the beginning of ToP are 6847+ years apart. However, it's possible that AC and SC were used at the same time.
(Before anyone suggests it, let me remind that the Flamberge and Vorpal Sword were already parts of the Eternal Sword during Ragnarok. That negates the possibility that Ragnarok and the Kharlan War are actually the same thing.)
Another thing to think about is this book in ToP (Alvanista castle, 4202 AC):
"Super-Ancient Liguistics Vol. 1"
It's said that two languages were developed in the super-ancient civilization age.
One is call the superior ancient language, but its origin is a language said to be developed 10,000 to 100,000 years ago.
The other language is called the common tongue.
That which we speak is formed of words from both of these languages.
(and then something about stone tablets?)
ToS has this "angel language" thrown in rather arbitrarily with no real meaning to the overall plot. Since ToS's writers were such big fans of another book in the same room (about moons), maybe they intended for the angel language to make reference to that language that was developed 10,000 to 100,000 years ago? If that's the case, then ToS's ending is roughly 6,102 - 96,102 years before ToP. Yeah, that narrows it down.
But there could just as easily be no relation between the languages.
Maps
A frequent topic of interest is the continents of ToS. Because the world was recombined via the Eternal Sword at the end of ToS, the continents can be put together and rearranged to form ToP's map. I have done this below. The continents are in proportion to each other according to ToS, and I've outlined them to show which world they came from (blue for Sylvarant and red for Tethe'alla).
Mouse over to choose labels: ToP,
ToS,
None
Mouse over to choose labels: ToP,
ToS,
None
Here is a real ToP map for reference. The continent shapes, sizes, and positions are based on the PSX version. (The terrain was based more on the SFC version, because it has a better in-game mini-map. >_>)
Mouse over to choose labels: ToP,
ToS,
None
Mouse over to choose labels: ToP,
ToS,
None
Some notes:
- The set of ToP labels also has Narikiri House from ND1 and the location Macaron was kept until SamoRine's opening scene.
- Heimdall continent overlaps Midgard/Asgard continent a little. The red line seperating the two sections (coast of Heimdal continent) is the location of a river in ToP.
- The island with Katz Village disappeared?!
- The continents are a little out of proportion. This is most noteable with Palmacosta/Harmel. It's quite too large, even if you take off the chunk on the east side of the mountains that gets cut off. Meltokio/Ary changed shape a lot, which I think can be blamed on rising ocean level. Freyland is squished vertically, but SamoRine does that too. o_O
- ToP labels on Meltokio/Ary continent are approximate. I suppose it can be argued that Shadow didn't move at all.
- Some places the map is a little off:
- I tried to make the terrain match ToS, but it's not always perfect. The most noteable case is the middle of the Sybak/Euclid continent. A lot of that mountain color is actually forest (Gaoracchia Forest).
- Palmacosta/Harmel should be a little more south. Its wrong size made it hard to fit.
- Freyland/Triet should be slight more west.
- The locations of most small islands can be argued.
Mouse over to choose labels:
ND1,
None
For clearer labeling, I took off the game's location icon and replaced them with a dot. I was very careful about getting the dots in the right place compared to the icon.
Anyway, this one's a mess. The blobbing of the continents is understandable; the whole world had to be fit into one GBC screen. But the locations seem a little more inaccurate than necessary. There's no excuse for putting Euclid south of Totis. Even SamoRine got that much right.
No labels on this, but a lot of them were slightly off compared to ToP. (Interesting thing to note is that it puts Gnome in roughly the same "wrong" location that ND1 does, southeast of Totis/Miguel. Gnome must've officially moved after 4202.)
Plot Hole List
If you know of any other plot holes or can explain to me why something I have listed here is not a plot hole, please let me know.
None of these games seem like they've really planned ahead for the future games. Plus all the continuations ignore each other and just focus on ToP, so they get the stuff from outside of ToP wrong (and despite all the effort, stuff from inside ToP sometimes end up wrong too). x_X
So there are plot holes; just accept it. All three continuations have plot holes with ToP too, not just ToS as is often claimed. ToS has the most plot holes, but I think that's because (a) it has three games preceeding it instead of just one or two, and (b) it's a longer and more complicated plot. ToS shows a lot of research into ToP backstory, so it's not like they put less effort in.
Summoning works differently in all four games:
- ToS: You must go to the Spirit, make it WANT to join you, fight it to prove yourself regardless, take a vow, and keep the vow. The applicable ring (stone?) comes free with each pact.
- ToP: You must have the special pact ring in advance. The spirit can either join you peacefully or you can kick its butt and make it your slave. There are also shoukanjuu (summon beast) available to summon, not just spirits; you can get a pact with dwellers of the abyss (makai no tami).
- ND1: If you dress up like a guy who went through the trouble described above, you can summon some of the spirits he has a pact with! I guess because they mistake you for that guy (even if you're like two and a half feet shorter)?
- SamoRine: Whoever has the ring has control over whatever is bound to the ring. No vow, no battle, no cutscene of any kind. You may, however, have to fight the creature to get the ring or to bind it to the ring. Any creature, whether it be living, undead, or divine, can be summoned, including humans. You can usually (always?) summon infinate numbers of that kind of creature from the same ring.
(In my opinion, ToS and ToP match up fairly well in regards to summoning. ToP talks about Leonardo and Geese, who invented pact rings, so we can assume that pact rings were not invented until post-ToS time. The pact rings presumeably negate the need for a vow. As for the other two, blame gameplay mechanics, I guess.)
All four games have map discrepancies:
- Shown above in the map section
ND1 Plot Holes
- ToP: What's up with Valhalla Village/City? It existed between 4203 and 4408, yet it's not in ToP?
- ToP: Just a slip-up in terminology: Meltia's assistant says to her, "But Professor... is it really okay for humans to obtain... such a great power...?" Even if there are humans on DK, Meltia definately isn't one, and her assistant(s) probably isn't either. He means all mortals or some such, but by using that word, he excludes elves, dwarves, and whatever Dhaos is.
- ToP: The forest containing Origin and Heimdall is supposed to be Trent Forest (trent no mori), but ND1 called it Spirit Forest (seirei no mori), which is supposed to be the forest with Martel and Yggdrasill....
SamoRine Plot Holes
- ToP: Dwarves apparently aren't extinct all of a sudden.
- ToP: Humans can inexplicably use magic. This is most noteable with Klarth, whom we know is definately not elf enough for magic.
- ToP: (argueable) No half-elves? I would explain this by saying that by 4765, half-elves are just so well integrated into human society that there's no point in distinguishing between the two. This is logical considering that the state of the elves for the last 463-or-so years. This explanation makes Elmira, Volga, Velga, and possibly Fulein part-elf.
- ToP/ND1/ToS: The spirits are just standard creatures, not one-of-a-kind entities. This elf just turned into Sylph, whoo. x_X
- ToP: Valkyrie, who ToP says is Odin's divine servant, is just a sword-weilding class obtainable by any ol' female human(/half-elf) in SamoRine.
ToS Plot Holes
- ToP: ToP says that the Flamberge and Vorpal Sword are made from a fragment of the souls of the gods Odin and Fenrir, respectively. ToS says the Vorpal Sword was made by Dirk, who does not seem to be a worshipper of Fenrir. o_O
- ToP/ND1: ToP says Derris-Kharlan is a planet which depends on a Giant Kharlan Tree (like Aselia). If its Kharlan Tree dies, the planet would suffer the same way that Aselia would (or worse?). But in ToS, there doesn't seem to be a Kharlan Tree on Derris-Kharlan. Even if there is one (and it was just mysteriously not shown), ToS's Derris-Kharlan is a mass of infinate mana, and it shouldn't have any problems if that Giant Tree were to die.
- ToP Merchandise: KataReki novel is not supportive of the idea that DK is populated by half-elves.
- ND1: ND1 is also not supportive of the idea that DK is populated by half-elves... but interestingly, ToS gives half-elves two powers that Kharlanian characters have in ND1 that ToP doesn't mention them having: the ability to sense the mana level (also in KataReki) and the ability to understand Volt.
- ToP: Little name discrepancies. Heimdall being the area in Trent Forest around Origin's rock versus the elf village itself. Fenrir being a god versus Celisius's sidekick. Nothing big here; Fenrir might have some logical explaination behind it? I'm assuming the Thors are related.
- ToP: (argueable) The Elemental Orb is needed to talk to Martel in ToP.
- ND1: Niflheim is not icy. It's also spelled differently in kana. I think they just ignored ND1's Niflheim and made a new one.
- ND1 Merchandise: I'm told that Norn is a spirit who has always guarded over her Kharlan Tree, which has always existed, i.e. since the Beginning. I don't see any sign of this in ND1 itself (doesn't even say she's a spirit!), so it must be in a book or drama if it's true.
- SamoRine: In SamoRine, angels are (supposedly!) actual divine entities, servents of God who come from Heaven. (I still like my theory that Angie is actually a lifeless being from DK, but.... >_>)
- ToP: The Necronomicon was Klarth's initial equipment. (Okay, maybe Klarth's was just a mundane copy.)
Alledged Plot Holes
Here are things that are sometimes called plot holes but shouldn't be....
Lloyd needs the Eternal Ring to use the Eternal Sword because the Eternal Sword can only be used by half-elves. Cless is human; why can he use the sword without the ring?!
Origin says... "the Eternal Sword remains, as by Mithos’ pact, unusable by those who lack the blood of elves. You [Lloyd] must master the sword by your own power and forge a new bond with it." The only reason the sword is unusable by humans is because of Mithos's pact, but Lloyd makes a new pact, so anyone should be able to use the Eternal Sword as long as they were acknowledged by Origin.
Celsius isn't in ToP; why is she in ToS?!
ToP has a Spirit you meet but can't summon (Martel), and some Spirits which are mentioned but never even shown (the snow Spirit and a star Spirit), so I don't see what the problem is that there are a bunch of other spirits that aren't mentioned in ToP. ToP never says, "These are the only spirits that exist: [list]."
Healing arts were invented in 4210 AC, so how do they exist in ToS?!
Healing arts were actually NOT invented in 4210 AC. Yes, it's true that Carole popularized houjutsu and made it a formal practice in 4210, but there's a book in Alvantasia, 4202 AC, that talks about healing arts (iyashi no jutsu) as something mysterious, meaning it existed before and just isn't well known. ToS makes reference to the fact that the Boltzman technique is incomplete (because Boltzman died before he wrote it all down) and hopefully the rest will be discovered someday. Hint, hint. But Raine's skills are not called houjutsu. I think they were called chiyuujutsu.
Bonus Similarities
Here's a list of some stuff that is similar between ToS and ToP but not for some logical plot reason. I guess ToS's creators just wanted ToP to pop into your head every five seconds so that when Lloyd says, "This tree's name is...," you gasp in realization instead of going, "...... huh?!"
(Please don't use the following things to convince a non-believer that ToS is a prequel to ToP. You'll only make yourself look stupid, as well as the rest of us by extension. This here is just meaningless cameo.)
--Some musics: Treant Forest theme, etc.
--Yggdrasill looks and fights weirdly simiilar to Dhaos. His Outburst skill is Dhaos Koredaa, and his Yggdrasill Laser (PS2 ver) is like Dhaos Laser. In the sound test, he has voice clips for Tetra Spell, which is one of Dhaos's trademark skills.
--Despite being relocated, Mizuho in ToS llooks exactly like Japon in ToP, except Japon makes room for the hotsprings.
--The towns that got destroyed in ToP are the same locations as the towns that got destroyed in ToS! Palmacosta/Harmel, Luin/Midgard, and to a lesser extent Ozette/Totis.
--The inn in Triet (near future Olive Villlage) is named Olive. The inn in Flanoir gets the full name of Olive Village.
Sheena's surname could arguably be on this list as well. Some like to say they might've made Lloyd's last name similar to Cless's deliberately, but I think most of them haven't seen the names in kana....
Credits
- Gogs (Gogeta75) for many discussions, for proving info, and for correcting errors on this page.
- ChangeV for posting and translating the entire script of ND1!
- Peatrical Systems for being the first (to my knowledge) to make images of ToP/ToS map comparisons.
- Niu, even though he still denies ToS being a prequel, for lots of discussion and info, especially plot holes.
Cyllya's Cracktheories
Here are things I like to think about the plot even though I have no proof of them. Some are plausible, while some are so crazy that we can probably assume it's not what the writers intended....
--The Palace Sedam/Gudra war takes place aafter 4354 AC.
--The time between the beginning of ToP annd end of ToS is between 6847 and 7000 years.
--The comet Samiel is Derris-Kharlan. It ddid not strike Aselia. Its tail consists of the mana fragments it periodically drops on Aselia.
--Angie was lying about being a divine serrvant of God; she is actually a lifeless being from Derris-Kharlan.
--Altessa is female.
--Ymir Forest's psychic butterflies are soomehow related to fairies... not sure how.
--Norn and Noishe are actually the same peerson. So many Norn-related things suddenly make sense if she's a fenrilra. (Note: Noishe gets masculine pronouns in the English version but there is no clue to his/her gender in Japanese.) If Norn's not a fenrilra, she's a god or demigod rather than a spirit.
--DK's population really does consist primmarily of human/elf hybrids like ToS suggests, but Dhaos is a hybrid of half-elf and... something else. (Angel doesn't count.) Mamono? Protozoan? Spirit? All of the above? The fenrilra traits would explain his flipping out in front of Yggdrasill in ND1. Spirit (can they even reproduce sexually?!?!) would explain his mana-related fainting spells. Any of them would explain his uberness.